Episode 355
From Whistleblowers to Congress: UAPs in 2025 - with Dave Smethurst
In this engaging episode of the Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson undertake a comprehensive retrospective of the year 2025, particularly focusing on the UFO phenomena that have garnered significant public interest. The conversation unfolds with the hosts reflecting on their personal experiences and observations throughout the year, particularly the emergence of several whistleblowers who have significantly influenced the discourse surrounding UAPs. The hosts dissect the impact of the UAP Disclosure Act, which has faced numerous obstacles within the legislative process, leading to a palpable sense of disillusionment among advocates for transparency.
As they grapple with the implications of these legislative failures, they also explore the broader societal perceptions of UAPs and the inherent skepticism that often accompanies governmental disclosures. The episode further delves into the cultural ramifications of UAP sightings, highlighting how mainstream media narratives can shape public perceptions and influence the acceptance of extraordinary claims. The hosts passionately advocate for a more nuanced understanding of these phenomena, urging listeners to remain open to the myriad of possibilities that exist within the realm of the paranormal. They adeptly navigate discussions surrounding the intersection of scientific inquiry and spiritual beliefs, particularly examining the burgeoning interest in consciousness studies and their potential relevance to UAP encounters. This episode stands out as a critical analysis of 2025's developments, serving as both a recap and a thought-provoking invitation for listeners to engage more deeply with the subjects at hand.
Transcript
You're listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast with your hosts, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson.
Speaker B:Hey, Ash, how are you doing?
Speaker C:Very well, very well, Greg, how are you on this fine dry for once Christmas Eve?
Speaker B:I know it's super warm, although today and yesterday was a bit chilly.
Speaker B:It's been quite freezing, quite a warm December and.
Speaker B:No, I'm excited.
Speaker B:Finished work now.
Speaker C:You're definitely down south if you think it's been a warm December, like, wow, absolutely bitter up here and not.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:It's not stopped raining for about six weeks in Manchester, so it's been awful.
Speaker C:The road's just constantly flooded, like.
Speaker B:It's all right, it's been all right.
Speaker B:I've finished work at lunch time today so we're all good.
Speaker B:So I'm now set for.
Speaker C:For Christmas.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Lucky, lucky.
Speaker B:Having to work up till lunchtime on Christmas Eve.
Speaker B:It's not too bad, but could be better.
Speaker B:But why they don't let us have time.
Speaker B:I'm off for a few days now, so we're all good.
Speaker B:We're all good.
Speaker B:How's work been for you?
Speaker B:Because I know you're quite full on.
Speaker C:Yeah, hectic, hectic, very stressful and yeah, just finished back obviously off tomorrow for Christmas Day and then sort of back in straight away after that.
Speaker C:So not really much time.
Speaker C:No, Christmas Day is busy.
Speaker C:Full visiting people and going out and around and going places so don't really get to rest and then back straight back into work.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Not too much of a break as.
Speaker B:An adult, is it?
Speaker B:Not fun, just.
Speaker C:It's just more work where it gets more at Christmas.
Speaker C:It's like nothing to look forward to really, apart from the Sunday dinner while the roast dinner.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's the only thing, the main thing worth looking for.
Speaker C:Forward to Christmas.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And everything else that comes along with it and the love and family and.
Speaker B:And the Christmas dinner.
Speaker C:Christmas dinner pics and blankets and the Yorkshire puddings and roasters and mash and gravy and turkey and peas and carrots and beetroot parsnip.
Speaker B:No stuffing.
Speaker C:Do I. Parsnips?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Anyway, just carbs mostly.
Speaker B:For me.
Speaker C:It'S the end of the year.
Speaker C:It's that time of year and as we've done past couple years, we kind of have a bit of a roundup of the year.
Speaker C: ing to be doing a UFO special: Speaker C: So tonight as we look back on: Speaker C:You guys may disagree.
Speaker C:We'll, we'll get to that.
Speaker C:There's been a couple of things that we will talk about.
Speaker C:So welcoming back to the show, hopefully in time for a great Christmas, is our old UFO UAP favorite, Dave Smurvest.
Speaker C:Welcome back to Pursuit the Paranormal.
Speaker A:Well, hi.
Speaker A:Hi gents.
Speaker A:It's great to be back.
Speaker A:I was thinking, God, last time we're on.
Speaker A:I think we're on a bit later on, but I did, we did a big review in November.
Speaker A:I seem to remember last year it was really good actually.
Speaker A:And we were just on.
Speaker A:Trump's regime was just about to start.
Speaker A:Should I say regime?
Speaker A:Maybe I should say administration.
Speaker A:I think regime's probably a bit more accurate.
Speaker A:But anyway, let's not get political.
Speaker A:But anyway, that was about to start and we're wondering what it was going to bring.
Speaker A:And as usual on the UFO scene it's always promised but we're never quite sure.
Speaker A:So yeah, I'm looking forward to doing this and going through and I haven't done much podcasting this year, just I've been pretty busy at work and how things have fell and I suppose I've not really pursued doing it.
Speaker A:But yeah, doing something like this gives me a chance to think sort of where we are because you do find.
Speaker A:But it's all in your mind.
Speaker A:You have all these little swirls of things in your mind but actually having to talk about it actually makes you sort of form.
Speaker A:So it's been quite useful thinking about it today and yesterday where we are because I obviously think about it like you guys probably do anyway, so we could just have a trot through it tonight and see what you think and, and we'll start from there really.
Speaker A:So that's what I was going to do.
Speaker A:So then if you've got any initial thoughts.
Speaker B:So I've been keeping abreast of the information this year.
Speaker B:I'll be honest with you, I've been keeping my toe in more normal.
Speaker B:Normally I'm the, I'm just the lay person who doesn't know a great deal.
Speaker B:But this year I, I feel like I've been listening to a lot more podcasts about UFOs and people in UAP community.
Speaker B:So I've been trying because I've been going up and down the country all the time in a good opportunity for me to listen to some long form conversations.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So yeah I've.
Speaker B:I'm hopefully be able to add a little bit more this year but I.
Speaker B:To me it feels busier but to you Ash didn't.
Speaker B:So yeah.
Speaker B:Be interesting.
Speaker C:I guess.
Speaker C:I mean I guess I kind of on that note of Greg saying you feel like you've been a bit more busier maybe because you have been a bit more in.
Speaker C:In the field, in the scene a bit maybe that feels like because you're just kind of hearing more and more.
Speaker C:For me I've been trying to do what I can kind of aware the main things that was happening and sort of know about, read about and listened about and watched about sort of the main.
Speaker C:Couple things I'm going to talk about today.
Speaker C:But I guess Dave, do you think so I think it's not been as busy as previous years.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:Not as much kind of major things happening.
Speaker C:I guess Greg thinks it has been.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker C:What's your kind of guess overall view on as as a quick.
Speaker C:As a quick hole?
Speaker A:Well, it's difficult really.
Speaker A:I think it.
Speaker A:It's been a bit more focused I suppose really.
Speaker A:I mean I think it's been a frustrating year in many ways.
Speaker A:We've got this aged disclosure film out just now in November really.
Speaker A:I say just now but he was due to be out.
Speaker A:I get into that in a bit but he was due to be out a lot earlier but there has been quite a lot happening.
Speaker A:It felt like a lot happening but it's been in bursts and sporadic burst and there's been silence and I think because there's been a lack of leadership, the leadership of the Disclosure movements fragmented a little bit.
Speaker A:It's not felt quite as focused and maybe that's why it's not felt as busy.
Speaker A:But I know what you mean, Ash.
Speaker A:So I. I sort of zone with both of what you're saying, really.
Speaker A:You know, in some ways it's been a lot happening but in other ways it feels like just been in spirits and not get going anywhere.
Speaker A:The main thing for me is that there's one way or another there's a lot more whistleblowers, incredible people come forward, you know, in the round and that sort of clarified our knowledge.
Speaker A:And the big thing was a hearing in September 25th which was probably not as good as the gross one.
Speaker A:It wasn't as good as that.
Speaker A:But the one before it with Carbo, wasn't that Albert Kavaloga?
Speaker A:It wasn't that good.
Speaker A:I mean he Had a hand in this one as well.
Speaker A:Well, this one was pretty good.
Speaker A:We had some whistleblowers, some solid testimony, so that felt good.
Speaker A:And there was a briefing, Congressional briefing session before that with Eric Davis and a few of the other ones, and that was one where Luke mistakenly misidentified a crop, you know, a cornfield, a ufo, and it was actually a crop sort of image or whatever it was.
Speaker A:But anyway, that was really.
Speaker A:That was pretty good, you know, that.
Speaker A:That was a really informative session.
Speaker A:So, yeah, the negative things.
Speaker A:For me, there's two negative things.
Speaker A:Firstly, the UAP disclosure failed to get past yes again.
Speaker A:And the shoe, the other shoe didn't drop.
Speaker A:And the other shoe in this case was the Trump regime actually doing something.
Speaker A:Because if you remember, there's a lot of hope invested in the Trump regime.
Speaker A:They were going to break the secret state if there was one set of people who were mad enough to do it with them, etc.
Speaker A:Etc.
Speaker A:And that's not quite happened.
Speaker A:So that's where I am.
Speaker A:I mean, what I thought we might want to do is just go through some of the key themes of the year and then see what we think.
Speaker A:And you probably chip in as.
Speaker A:As we go, really, on each of them and what your impressions were.
Speaker A:I don't want to spend too long on any of them, but just to give people an idea.
Speaker A:And you never see me to do miss stuff doing this.
Speaker A:But it's just my.
Speaker A:Sort of what I was thinking, what are the themes?
Speaker A:So anyway, what do you think of what I've just said then?
Speaker A:Anything to add to that, or should I just get stuck into these themes?
Speaker B:Let's just get stuck in, I suppose.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Let's go, let's go, let's go.
Speaker A:All right, then.
Speaker A:Well, as I say, I'm gonna.
Speaker C:Oh, let's go.
Speaker A:Oh, I know we're not being very Christmassy.
Speaker C:Not got.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:You had the full trip on a couple of years ago, Ash, it has been bloody m. Use my language.
Speaker A:It has been a bit miserable in Manchester.
Speaker A:It's been raining really bad and cold.
Speaker A:So I do agree.
Speaker A:We haven't had Southern Comfort like you, Greg, I'm telling you.
Speaker B:Most of the year.
Speaker B:What, wearing a T shirt.
Speaker A:Very upsetting.
Speaker A:Anyway, Right, okay, first theme then is whistleblowers.
Speaker A:And I don't want to.
Speaker A:As I say, I'm going to not go into those.
Speaker A:The big one was this Jake Barber in January.
Speaker A:Feels a million years ago.
Speaker A:Now, coming forward, he was a secret, secret U4 retrieval program picking up this big egg Started an organization called Sky Watch and we talked about in some detail I think a few months ago.
Speaker A:So I won't go into it there but he kicked it off and he was.
Speaker A:He was basically saying there was this, you know, organized retrieval events and he was working for a good man.
Speaker A:I'm not quite sure about Mr. Barber, I must be honest with you.
Speaker A:I. I don't think he's lying.
Speaker A:I think he is connected.
Speaker A:But something about his story about how he built himself up as some sort of his idea and his own businessman and that's how they do it.
Speaker A:Some Red Team insane is operative.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:I don't know about that.
Speaker A:I'm sure he probably is telling the truth, but it all just seemed a bit weird to me in this Sky Watcher thing.
Speaker A:They promised a lot they were going to release these videos and that nothing's actually come of it.
Speaker A:And I do wonder if they're angling for a bit of a link to some of the tech bros and whether they're going that way.
Speaker A:It's very hard.
Speaker A:I can't quite make out what they are.
Speaker A:But he come forward and he kicked it off and he started this debate about the legacy program and cover up and retrieval.
Speaker A:So that was quite a big thing.
Speaker A:But it's weird the way it's gone.
Speaker A:Then we had that Matthew Brown guy who turned out to be the author of Immaculate Constellation.
Speaker A:Conceptually that was the old joke, wasn't it?
Speaker A:Immaculate Constellation.
Speaker B:But anyway, that's tomorrow, isn't it?
Speaker B:With Mary.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Very, very good.
Speaker A:Very good.
Speaker A:You got it.
Speaker A:Very good.
Speaker C:Anyway, happy birthday.
Speaker C:Jesus.
Speaker A:Yeah, we don't want any lightning hitting the screams.
Speaker A:Anyway, if you remember Matthew Brown, he brought up this Immaculate Constellation.
Speaker A:This had two main elements.
Speaker A:One was the secret SAP where they held all the UFO data, all the signals information in secret Department of Defense.
Speaker A:And it was all held and they had the full trip of evidence and he revealed that.
Speaker A:Well, the other weirder thing you reveal was there was a lot of.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:Alien Arb.
Speaker A:What was down for dance for alien reproduction vehicle.
Speaker A:There was a lot of doors knocking about.
Speaker A:There was an American sub watching a Russian ships rendezvous with this big triangular craft.
Speaker A:There was a lot of that stuff going on as well which added a new dimension to things about what was happening.
Speaker A:Who's got the tech?
Speaker A:Are we talking to the nhi?
Speaker A:Is it over techno?
Speaker A:I'm going to get into that theme a bit later on.
Speaker A:So he was very significant when he come forward.
Speaker A:He was seen as pretty credible when he.
Speaker A:When he Come forward in terms of.
Speaker A:Because he was basically going to it.
Speaker A:He was a defense analyst and he got into it and he happened to open these files and then he was in it then.
Speaker A:And he then decided to withdraw, you know from his job and become a whistleblower which was pretty brave.
Speaker A:And another fellow called Dylan Boyland.
Speaker A:Yeah Ballin, sorry who we met at the hearings on in November but he was sort of big flying triangle but he also, he was a governor singles person and he worked in the sort of intelligence communities programs and all the rest of it.
Speaker A:So he worked in sorry legacy program stuff.
Speaker A:Sorry that wasn't very clear, you know and he was.
Speaker A:He worked for some of these hidden programs, worked for private aerospace companies.
Speaker A:Classic profile.
Speaker A:He'd come forward to confess to Arrow and all the rest and he'd be treated pretty badly.
Speaker A:And he also has been acting as a bit of a dead man switch for other whistleblowers and according to him and this Matthew Brown there's quite a few other whistleblowers who are teetering on the edge of coming forward but they're worried they haven't got the suitable protections in black and white to alarm to do it and play.
Speaker A:There's a lot of intimidation going on.
Speaker A:Well I called Jeff Nuticelli I think in my terrible pronunciation as usual.
Speaker A:He was the security guard at Vandenberg AFB who saw this big massive triangular size of two football fields craft and you know there's a lot of contractors there that's been reported on a lot and talking so he come forward.
Speaker A:Might remember LA Caskey, James Catsky, he was the, he worked on the Skinwalkers at the Pentagon program.
Speaker A:He headed that he's done a couple of books but he come out again basically saying the COVID ups are real corner blue which Sean Kirkpatrick tried to say was everybody was mistaken the real program was actually a proper program.
Speaker A:Talked again about reverse engineering.
Speaker A:He said he touched the craft if you remember.
Speaker A:Very credible guy.
Speaker A:Even though he's a bit irritated.
Speaker A:He's quite slippery.
Speaker A:Not slippery but he's.
Speaker A:He makes a thing about it.
Speaker A:I'm not telling you this, I'm not telling you that I'm not telling but you know it's quite.
Speaker A:Some people find it quite irritating but his books that he's producing D3 now Skin Walkers.
Speaker A:He did another one which was on what they found out during that whole, that whole program ora program and he's done another one which I've got, I haven't got around to reading.
Speaker A:I've skimmed it and they're absolutely brilliant for info.
Speaker A:So if anybody wants to get a good detail read, they're the ones.
Speaker A:So he's come out that was significant.
Speaker A:Again, you got this Dan Sherman guy.
Speaker A:He did a book called Operation Preserve Destiny, you may remember.
Speaker A:He was an aircraft comms person.
Speaker A:He alleged he was.
Speaker A:He, he was.
Speaker A:His DNA had been.
Speaker A:Basically, he was a bit of a hybrid.
Speaker A:He didn't say.
Speaker A:Found this out.
Speaker A:His DNA had been altered so that he could communicate with nhi.
Speaker A:He went into the Air Force and then they put him into a program where they were talking to nhi, if you believe that.
Speaker A:But again, he's seen as highly credible and apparently Trump's been briefed on that case.
Speaker A:So that, that's just a rumor.
Speaker A:Who knows if that's true.
Speaker A:But that again, was this whole thing about not only the hybrid stuff and is there any, you know, interference also about the communication element as well.
Speaker A:So that's fascinating.
Speaker A:I read that book.
Speaker A:It's only a short read, well worth a read.
Speaker A:It's, it's quite boring in a way, and I don't sound it, but that adds to credibility.
Speaker A:It's not some massive dramatic thing.
Speaker A:It's just him describing what happened.
Speaker A:And that makes it all the more sort of believable for that, really.
Speaker A:There was a guy, Harold Malgram, you might remember, he died in February.
Speaker A:Jesse Mac has interviewed him and he was a.
Speaker A:He was a big government inside.
Speaker A:He worked with Kennedy in the Cuban Missile crisis.
Speaker A:I think we discussed him last time around as well.
Speaker A:But he basically was on his deathbed and in the event he again revealed about the big cover up, he talked of, he talked about, he talked about a number of things, but also you could see about Recover Craft, the Legacy program.
Speaker A:And he just sort of confirmed it was all real.
Speaker A:And he again was a very significant figure.
Speaker A:And then I'll get into this a bit later, but the age of disclosure come out.
Speaker A:Well, a lot of other people were talking, but notably of James Clapper.
Speaker A:Clapper, who was the Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker A:Very big figure, very well respected.
Speaker A:He said the U.S. air Force program for years.
Speaker A:So, you know, and you have Marco Rubio speaking out as much as he's sort of distanced himself a little bit from that now, which is understandable, I suppose.
Speaker A:So basically we had all this big group of whistleblowers and a few others.
Speaker A:And the effect of that for me, which again, I'll talk about in a bit, but the effect for me was that it sort of confirmed a lot of data, Incredible people.
Speaker A:And so that was the first thing.
Speaker A:I don't know if you've got anything on that or I can go on through the next ones.
Speaker C:I mean I definitely, I think this year gonna have my new resolution to try and be less skeptical and a bit more open to all these people coming forward.
Speaker C:But I would start this year with Barber and that egg and then you have Alezando with the, that image.
Speaker C:It's just like what, what, what are we doing?
Speaker C:It's like that.
Speaker C:It's just like sometimes it feels like we're shooting ourselves in the feet with this stuff.
Speaker C:Like having all these whistleblowers going forward should be making it more credible.
Speaker C:Like you say, like sort of backing up the data.
Speaker C:More, more people, more like high ranking people coming forward.
Speaker C:Always going to be a good thing.
Speaker C:But then it kind of offset by things like the egg video that Louis Ando who is going in front of millions of people saying which afterwards he sort of said like yeah, I was just giving it, I wasn't saying it was something, it's just something I've just been given.
Speaker C:I was showing it to people.
Speaker C:It's like, well look at what you've been given first for going in front of what should be millions of people that's now making you look a bit of an idiot now.
Speaker C:I think after isn't he got a lot of kind of joking and a bit of abuse and stuff on social media because of.
Speaker C:And going forward with that.
Speaker C:And it's like as a fan of Louis andor in general, it's just so frustrating when we have all these people and all these hearings and stuff like this and then the stuff that kind of takes over the headlines is things like that where like I said, I think you said at the start of the show where it's like taking we step, we're stepping backwards.
Speaker C:Like we saw it going forward but then also going backwards at the same time.
Speaker C:So kind of like we're not getting anywhere yet.
Speaker C:We're still kind of stuck where things are happening, new people coming forward, but we're still not actually moving forward in my opinion.
Speaker C:And then things like that just set, set us back.
Speaker C:And it's so hard to try remain positive and being excited about it when that's the stuff that is.
Speaker C:It's a lot of claims and stuff like that.
Speaker C:But then when we start talking about the evidence when that comes forward and it's these videos and these pictures and it turned out to be shite, basically, basically it's just really difficult to keep that kind of momentum going.
Speaker C:I Think.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker B:I echo what you say there.
Speaker B:Although I thought the end of this year did.
Speaker B:It ended quite strong for me.
Speaker B:So I've been.
Speaker B:So I watched the Age of Disclosure, which we can talk about, but there's.
Speaker B:You've got Marco Rubio, Anna Polina Luna, she's coming forward and speaking on multiple big platform podcasts.
Speaker B:And being that these senators and representatives are coming forward and, or not putting their, their neck on the line, they're not because this is just a small part of what they do as a, as a daily job.
Speaker B:But then you've got Tim Burchette, every.
Speaker B:Everybody seems to be coming forward, all these big names.
Speaker B:And then James Latsky.
Speaker B:I listened to a lot of what he said this year, certainly towards the end of this year, and it all seems to be ramping up.
Speaker B:Whereas it started very badly with that egg for definite and the video image of what could have been anything being picked up and, and whatnot.
Speaker B:It did start badly, but I, I feel they ended for like a normal person, a non, non UAP person that it.
Speaker B:It seems to have gathered momentum and Age of Disclosure, whether people liked it or not, I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:I'll be honest with you.
Speaker B:I learned a bit of stuff that I didn't know before, but I didn't learn anything massively new.
Speaker B:But it just feels like a lot more people seem to be getting behind the movement and I don't know if I've missed a lot, but Dave Grush, I didn't really see him at all this year, I'll be honest.
Speaker A:I think you're right.
Speaker A:I mean, I get what, where Ash is coming from as well, because I think that old sky watcher thing's a bit slippery, to be honest with you.
Speaker A:I can't quite put my finger on my door.
Speaker B:Is it psionics as well?
Speaker B:They called it psionics or something.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, that's another thing.
Speaker A:If you listen to some of those psionic guys who are doing the contacting, the idea is they've got these guys.
Speaker A:I know, I know you know, it's just for people who might not.
Speaker A:Yeah, you've got these guys with a psionic link who load a craft in that and it's sort of, I think tapering over if there's something dodgy's going on there.
Speaker A:But if you read some of the stuff that they write, somebody silent gets pretty weird.
Speaker A:It all feels pretty sort of woo woo.
Speaker A:So, I mean, I don't mind because I like you get into it.
Speaker A:Don't get me wrong, I don't want to dismiss that, but it just feels a bit weird, you know, and you don't sound quite.
Speaker A:Sounds a bit credible, I think.
Speaker A:Well, if they're saying this, what.
Speaker A:What about the other things they say?
Speaker A:So that's a bit odd.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:And as I say, because they're still being a bit ambiguous, it's very difficult.
Speaker A:There's no And Lou thing.
Speaker A:See, I think I feel a bit sorry for Lou, but he's obviously put his career on the line.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I'm not so naive to think that he just did it on his own.
Speaker A:I think there was a concerted push by the.
Speaker A:The faction who wanted disclosure, and Lou was the front man of that.
Speaker A:I don't think there's anything wrong in that, but I don't think he's just woke up one more inside to do it.
Speaker A:But I do think he is genuinely trying to do stuff, but I think he just needs to be more careful because you're right, he did that, that, that Congressional briefing, there's loads of really good stuff come out of that.
Speaker A:But that was the only story because he made that mistake.
Speaker A:And what he.
Speaker A:What I think keeps happening, it keeps slipping him stuff, whoever it is, because he.
Speaker A:Through people he thinks he knows, you know, not for ages, but people who he thinks are all right and it's obviously manufactured to make him slip up.
Speaker A:And he's not checking because if you remember, he did that and within half an hour somebody had found out the actual image.
Speaker A:That was pretty bloody quick, that.
Speaker A:So I think you're right.
Speaker A:She just needs to be more careful.
Speaker A:But I also agree with you, Greg, or as it's gone on, it's built up and you've got more credible people because.
Speaker A:And that's been my feeling, we've had quite a lot of credible people coming forward.
Speaker A:So I felt there's been progress because of the credibility we've started, the discussions, moved on, which I'll talk about then.
Speaker A:We're going to come on to the edge of disclosure in a bit, so we'll get on to that.
Speaker A:But I can see both sides of it there.
Speaker A:But he just.
Speaker A:I think he's withdrawn a little bit, Lou, after that, you know, because he was a bit.
Speaker A:He felt he sort of shot himself in the foot a little bit.
Speaker A:He just needs to be more careful because some people hate him, really hate him, and, and they use anything to weave some vast conspiracy against him and it's very irritating.
Speaker A:So I get what you're saying there.
Speaker A:So what I thought I'D do next.
Speaker A:Unless we've got any comeback.
Speaker A:I'm going to just go through a couple of these quick things now and just, just go through them and just so we can just for.
Speaker A:So we make a bit of progress, really.
Speaker A:The next thing I had was, and I don't want to get you started here, Ash, so I'll do this quickly, was the drone activity.
Speaker A:There's the tail end of the New Jersey flap and there's some relevance to why I'm going to go into this in a bit later on.
Speaker A:There was a tail end of the New Jersey flap and still some stuff in US military sites they couldn't really explain.
Speaker A:There was a lot of stuff going on, but there was also a lot of activity in Europe as well.
Speaker A:And I'm discounting the activity that was on the Ukrainian, Russian, you know, that sort of west or eastern border.
Speaker A:I suppose if you're thinking from the European side, you know, where the Ukrainian conflict, they're on the border.
Speaker A:Discounting all that's clearly Russian drone activity going on.
Speaker A:There was activity, I think I made it, but I made a list of it somewhere.
Speaker A:Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Germany, France, the France Open.
Speaker A:Finally Sweden and Norway way.
Speaker A:Now, a lot of it was over military installations, where the nukes were and all the rest of it.
Speaker A:My viewers, you know, has been A lot of this activity seems to follow the nukes and I think with the Ukraine war and other things, there's a lot of nuclear audience being moved across the sea on being moved around and probably being moved as well around to Taiwan because Langley was a central hub for that, which is where they all were.
Speaker A:So I think a lot of this activity is trapped around.
Speaker A:I don't think it's Russian because they've not been able to track that.
Speaker A:It could be, but I don't think so because I listen to a lot of the, for my sins, these military things about the Ukrainian war and they've stopped talking about the drones because they've not said it's Russian or what it is.
Speaker A:And they stopped talking because they don't know what it is.
Speaker A:And it's a bit embarrassing, you know, then I never going to say it's uap.
Speaker A:So they've stopped going on about it and there's not much evidence because it's in Western Europe of how the Russians would be able to do it if they've got that capability.
Speaker A:It could be, but there's that now where I'm going to come to it is there's been taught for a couple of years now Maybe nearly three years I've heard it.
Speaker A:But it's got about the Chinese potentially having.
Speaker A:Because they've got their own thing.
Speaker A:Gross said that you know, doing their own work on reverse engineering.
Speaker A:They've got some exotic tech and the thinking is that they've been.
Speaker A:Got some sort of propulsion tech but they're.
Speaker A:They've strapped to some of their drones and that's what's.
Speaker A:That's maybe them or maybe them and the Russians.
Speaker A:I would say it's more Chinese and it seems more the Chinese that are actually flying, that are actually flying, you know, doing these over flights.
Speaker A:The theory being before Trump was elected it was a bit of a show of force.
Speaker A:Part of the Americans with a pants down because they didn't know that they advanced to that degree.
Speaker A:The Yanks then sent their stuff up.
Speaker A:They a advanced stuff but also their, the normal drones to confuse the picture.
Speaker A:So there's all that going on and.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So that may be true but it does explain a why some of it looks a bit human and isn't.
Speaker A:Doesn't look dead.
Speaker A:There's also some UAP in the mix as well.
Speaker A:But why it looks sort of half and half unusual but it could be human.
Speaker A:It sort of explains, explains that but it also gets around this logistical issue because if it was you you'd have to have this massive logistical backup system.
Speaker A:But we've not seen anywhere that's been the biggest apart from the evasion of the sensors and all the rest of it.
Speaker A: member and technically it was: Speaker A:Wherever it was, it was somewhere in Nevada and he, he alleged that one of the, one of the things why he was being followed by the sources was that the Chinese did have this tech and he made it and everybody thought oh well I don't know about that, a lot of stuff's come out.
Speaker A:So I do wonder if there's something to that and some sort of.
Speaker A:Because the Trump regime he got in what they were, they were going to reveal it and then when they got in he said oh no, it's all, it's just all normal drones and the FAA knew all about it and everybody just denied it.
Speaker A:So I think with this drone stuff was, has been a bit weird and it's persisted.
Speaker A:So that's a very interesting angle.
Speaker A:Now I know I said I'm going to go through this but you guys might want to just Come in on that because I know it's a bit of an interest.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:For me, because you guys probably know what I'm like with.
Speaker C:With the drones and stuff.
Speaker C:When.
Speaker C:When it first sort of started happening, obviously started going up in the UFO groups and UFO talk about these drones shutting down the airports and stuff.
Speaker C:And I was like, yeah, it's just drones.
Speaker C:I don't see the UFO connection here.
Speaker C:Oh, I don't understand why we're talking about.
Speaker C:In UFO groups.
Speaker C:But then the more it went on and like, for it, like say across all these countries shutting down commercial airports and over military bases and stuff, it's like there's some.
Speaker C:This is not just some people with drones going off airports.
Speaker C:What I thought it was originally, like just some.
Speaker C:Some people just wanting to have a bit of fun or just trying to test or whatever or just being.
Speaker C:I get a lot of the protesters about different things going on at the minute, different conflicts going on that people protesting about or maybe something to do with that sort of protest that way.
Speaker C:But then like say all these countries and it's happening in all these different places.
Speaker C:I think actually this is.
Speaker C:There's some concentrated effort and organization behind this.
Speaker C:There's no.
Speaker C:This isn't just people that come together on a.
Speaker C:On a Facebook group and said, let's do this in all these different countries.
Speaker C:This is something that's actually happened that's really happening.
Speaker C:And I'd actually forgot about all this until you just said it.
Speaker C:And then it's because it's just signed.
Speaker C:It all happened.
Speaker C:It kind of.
Speaker C:A lot of it was in the short space of time.
Speaker C:It's like what is like people like this is all coming now and stuff in the UK Then it sort of just stopped and nothing.
Speaker C:No one's really talked about it since then, which has been a bit.
Speaker C:Oh, I've not heard it anyway, where seems to talk of stuff for ages.
Speaker C:They just sort of just overnight just stopped and people weren't talking about it anymore.
Speaker C:So I kind of forgot about it completely until you just said it.
Speaker C:I was like, oh yeah, that.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:That happened.
Speaker C:It actually made me really question, like, what.
Speaker C:What is behind this?
Speaker C:And I guess the.
Speaker C:Like I said the rush one don't make sense, but China definitely makes a lot more sense with it than anything.
Speaker C:And obviously you've also got the UAP aspect to it and the nuclear aspect to it.
Speaker C:Like I say, with all the conflicts going on kind of over on the Eastern side of Europe going into obviously the Middle east and Russia moving, obviously the Nukes and stuff and obviously getting ready in case need to move stuff more over that side.
Speaker C:Obviously we are stuff over there anyway.
Speaker C:But moving more things over there, it's definitely an interesting one that, yeah, totally forgot about it till just now, actually.
Speaker C:So it probably was more when I think back about the year than there was that initially thought about Greg.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I, I can't believe it's Russian.
Speaker B:I, I simply cannot believe that Putin would have that tech and not use it.
Speaker B:I, I just cannot see how that wouldn't be a thing.
Speaker B:He's got nukes, but I know he wouldn't use them for fear of obliterating himself.
Speaker B:But if he had the kind of tech that could outperform anything else on the planet, anything else that's, that can just move instantly wherever.
Speaker B:I, I can't see how he wouldn't use it.
Speaker B:So China.
Speaker B:Yeah, I get, I can see that China would be.
Speaker B:And China wouldn't give it to Russia because why would, why would a country with that kind of tech, they wouldn't share it with anyone.
Speaker B:But because China are not this ruthless invader like other people are.
Speaker B:Like Putin, for example.
Speaker B:They're not going to use it unless they can.
Speaker B:They, they're so sophisticated, the Chinese, with regards to cyber attacks, information war and cyber warfare, that they are not stupid enough to show their hand with this tech.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's just a personal opinion.
Speaker B:I just think they're too clever.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're trying to figure out exactly how they can best use this.
Speaker B:Intimidation's great because you can just fly with impunity into American airspace and everybody's flapping.
Speaker B:Whereas if you don't do it, because as soon as soon as one of these drones or one of these objects that we're seeing, if we're assuming it's adversarial tech, I. E. China rather than Putin, as soon as they shoot and destroy something, I, I don't know where the planet goes because there's no comeback.
Speaker B:Like Trump can't defend the US and he's the, the big all I am, as you know, he's like, we've got the best.
Speaker B:That's a rubbish impression.
Speaker B:But like, we're the great, we're the greatest.
Speaker B:We're like, we have the best tech, we have everything.
Speaker B:So to be, to be shown with your pants down is essentially not a good look.
Speaker B:So I, I can't see that it's Russian or any like Middle Eastern country with a vendetta against anybody.
Speaker B:China, I get why it could be them I still don't think it's China.
Speaker B:Certainly the drones might be.
Speaker B:But then we, we spoke to a guy called Gabe Lenners.
Speaker B:Was that this year or was that the end of last year?
Speaker B:I don't even know anymore.
Speaker C:But he, I think it's a start of this year.
Speaker B:So he.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was then the last year started this year.
Speaker A:I remember that.
Speaker A:I listened to that.
Speaker A:It was very good.
Speaker A:So he was, he's American money.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he was ex Disney.
Speaker B:The, the podcast was produced by Ron Howard, Hollywood director and producer.
Speaker B:So real high budget thing.
Speaker B:He's been looking into drone flights and drone appearances for that have been going on for like six, seven years.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But that, so that makes me wonder how it could be sort of Chinese tech.
Speaker B:I, I don't know.
Speaker B:I think that the problem we've got now is that there's so many people coming forward with their own sightings.
Speaker B:There's so many people coming forward with what appears to be no agenda that is hard to know who to believe.
Speaker B:Like Lou Elizondo.
Speaker B:Yeah, this, this picture that he puts up and gets ridiculed for.
Speaker B:But then when we come on to Age of Disclosure, I thought he was incredible in that personally.
Speaker B:But yeah, I just, I just, I don't know what to believe now.
Speaker B:This year I've been so open minded and it was refreshing to hear you say that next year, Ash, you might be a bit more open minded about stuff.
Speaker C:Stuff.
Speaker B:But I think this year we've definitely.
Speaker B:I feel that if you have an open mind this year, just in general, if you just.
Speaker B:If I've I've gone into all these podcasts that I've been listening to in these briefings and just gone, you know what, I'll take it on face value as it is at the moment because if you're prepared to stand up there in front of Congress and say about these sightings or you're prepared to go public with some very outlandish claims because they certainly are and put your face to, to it and be ex military.
Speaker B:And a lot of people, a lot of them have had distinguished, distinguished careers.
Speaker B:That's quite a brave move.
Speaker B:Some might say stupid, but like the Matt Brown one, just to go back very slightly for him, he literally came across this information and there was like a PowerPoint with Lou Elizondo's face on there and he couldn't unsee what he saw.
Speaker B:But then I think to myself, was he, was he handed that information?
Speaker B:Did they show it to him on purpose and then sort of essentially mock him with this PowerPoint presentation with Lou Elizondo in it, knowing full well that he couldn't say anything because if he says something he becomes a whistleblower and he's, for want of a better phrase, he's fucked.
Speaker B:Because so the worst thing that Matt Brown could have done was see the stuff and it basically forced his hand, I think, because I think they put him in a position where he either had to shut up and not unsee stuff or start writing his report, which is essentially what he did.
Speaker B:You're on mute, Dave.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think going, I know, I just got on mute.
Speaker A:A classic school by her technical issues behind the scenes, everybody thought that's put me off me, put me off.
Speaker A:He's like the thing with Lou, remember?
Speaker A:And that melon.
Speaker A:All the rest of the, their big thing about, I think part of the thing about this disclosure was they had this small legacy group controlling it all and they were worried that this very scenario would happen.
Speaker A:But the Chinese with their big, you know, corporatist state where they can just order people and secrecy is an issue, would get the drop on them because they could put more resources and it wasn't secret in that way.
Speaker A:And maybe this is what's happened with these British drone stuff and all the rest of it, because I can.
Speaker A:They're very pragmatic the Chinese.
Speaker A:Apparently they've gone for the AI stuff.
Speaker A:So you can see him, can't you get in a big drone did design and just strapping some sort of anti grab propulsion on it, for want of a better word, not bothering about it being the best, not the best but you know, being all singing or dancing like the Americans like to do, like to have the real brilliant finished thing, you know, excellence and just using it.
Speaker A:And if you think about it, evaded all the normal, they can't bring it down.
Speaker A:It's evaded all the stuff yet it's not quite behaving like the classic uap, which is out of sight technologically.
Speaker A:So I, I, I think, I think we've probably seen a bit of that and if you get around the other more conspiratorial things of why are they involved and is there something terrible going to happen to us all?
Speaker A:And it's a big secret.
Speaker A:The big thing that was driving this was as I say, this over this secrecy that they were worried about.
Speaker A:Maybe we're just saying that.
Speaker A:I think you're right, Greg.
Speaker A:There's no way Trump's going to say oh yeah, we can't defend ourselves at the moment.
Speaker A:And I think they just said, well all right, Mr. President, you crack on then.
Speaker A:And he went, no, I don't think so.
Speaker A:And you're right with Matt Brown again, he did anticipate, you know, he did talk about this ARV stuff and we'll get into that in a bit.
Speaker A:So, yeah, so the drones is another, as you say, Ash, you couldn't quite remember.
Speaker A:You'd sort of gone for your man, because there was some stuff around Lake and Eve again, as well, as we're in this more recent drone flat.
Speaker A:Not, not very recent, but, you know, like three, four, three months.
Speaker A:Three, four months ago that had happened.
Speaker A:So it has been going on in.
Speaker A:In the background and it's just interesting to keep an eye on.
Speaker A:But I think everybody, they sort of shorten it down and the mainstream is normally just not talking about it when they don't know what it is.
Speaker A:So anyway, so I'll just move on to the other things now as we've been going on.
Speaker A:The next thing I have, and I don't want to dwell on this, but it is quite a big factor is the failure of the UAP Disclosure act, which was a big thing people may remember.
Speaker A:This essentially took control of classification of UAP materials and the files away from the CIA and the secret Keepers and giving it to an independent body to release.
Speaker A:And that, for me, has driven all the stuff this year, because they do not want that to happen.
Speaker A:That's the one thing they don't want to happen.
Speaker A:All the disinformation and kicking off and dirty tricks and articles in the Wall Street Journal has all stemmed from trying to stop that.
Speaker A:There was a big concerted effort and yet again, it got killed.
Speaker A:It's getting killed earlier and earlier every year because they're getting more expert, because they've obviously got resources in Congress.
Speaker A:So they managed to kill it at the death the first time, if you remember, just at the death in the reconciliation.
Speaker A:Then it got earlier and then this time it's been done in again and they tried to get it in.
Speaker A:So that tells me they put more resources in the Congress and they're using staffers, apparently, who are the career people there to do a lot of this.
Speaker A:But that's.
Speaker A:That was a quite a blow.
Speaker A:And we even thought that they might get it at the last minute because, as I say, they have this reconciliation phase last minute, which he can put anything in.
Speaker A:And Eric Burleson was trying, I'll come on to him in a second, was trying to get this in and he just didn't manage it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And that's why I was personally frustrated, but Age of disclosure didn't come out early because it might have helped that.
Speaker A:But yeah, so that's a big thing to keep in mind because I think underlying this was the big factor.
Speaker A:And when they really started to shut things down and kick off was when Rush testified, but mainly when this UAP Acts or Disclosure act was unveiled.
Speaker A:And I remember us doing a Shawnee at the time and that was the.
Speaker A:And then they really started because they do not want to give up control of that.
Speaker A:That secrecy.
Speaker A:That's the big thing.
Speaker A:The next one linked to that, I suppose is this UAP Congressional Task Force.
Speaker A:It's actually called the rather ludicrous name of declassification of federal secrets by the Trump regime and all sorts thrown in.
Speaker A:Jfk, Martin Luther King, you know, uno, loads of weird stuff I can't remember.
Speaker A:But part of that was uap.
Speaker A:Now they've done some pretty good work as you said.
Speaker A:Luna.
Speaker A:Representative Luna spoke out.
Speaker A:She can be a bit of a loose cannon, but she's gone on Rogan and a few things and really set the cat among the pigeons.
Speaker A:Birch hat.
Speaker A:There's a lot of stuff come out.
Speaker A:Gross.
Speaker A:Interestingly, has been appointed as a staffer.
Speaker A:It's not officially to that body, it's to Eric Burleson, who's another member there.
Speaker A:He's been appointed to Eric Burleson as his member of staff.
Speaker A:But effectively he's advising them on what to do for the hearings.
Speaker A:And so having him in the corner, he's really been helping them to cut through the crap.
Speaker A:They've had meetings with Arrow and these other people that have been unsatisfactory.
Speaker A:The FBI have come in, they've been a bit better coming to light in a minute with the FBI, but.
Speaker A:But the main thing is they made quite a bit of progress.
Speaker A:And the culmination that was this big hearing, as I won't go again, that we saw in Sept World.
Speaker A:They had the Congressional briefing in May which was really good, unfortunately spoilt a bit with a loose stuff.
Speaker A:Eric Davis actually talks about types of aliens in the.
Speaker A:You know, different types of aliens that you come across, which was absolutely mental.
Speaker A:And they also had this woman who's a business investment person, I forget her name now, but she talks on the National Science foundation about some of the behind the scenes use of UAP tech, exotic tech, but it's only deploying industry.
Speaker A:All absolutely fascinating stuff.
Speaker A:So anyways, so.
Speaker A:So that happened.
Speaker A:So that was pretty good.
Speaker A:We saw Dylan Ball and testify that Jeff Nutticelli there and a few George Knapp was at that hearing, people might remember, and it was really was a good hearing.
Speaker A:But I thought they managed to make a bit of an impact, even though their resources and their focus was a little diluted.
Speaker A:So that, that was pretty good.
Speaker A:They're thinking about when we go on to next year, they're thinking about what they're going to do in the future.
Speaker A:And I think they just need to keep having hearings and chipping away.
Speaker A:I think some of them are getting a little Disart and Delphark and second, but I think they just need to keep chipping away.
Speaker A:Come on to the Trump, but not finally, but for this section coming onto the Trump regime.
Speaker A:And I think it's, we've sort of covered it really before they were going to come in.
Speaker A:They're the perfect thing against Deep State.
Speaker A:In a way, it's perfect for Trump because it's probably the one conspiracy goes on about.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:And so, you know, he can actually, he can justify all these other stuff and he could prove to us wrongdoing, embezzlement, all.
Speaker A:So it's perfect for him.
Speaker A:But he hasn't followed through on those promises that he made in the election campaign.
Speaker A:He's got prominent supporters in his cabinet like Rubio, Tulsi Gabbard, John Ratcliffe, the CIA director who they said that thing on Fox just at the end of the last Trump administration.
Speaker A:But weird craft in the air.
Speaker A:So why has that not happened is the question.
Speaker A:There's talk of a new government unit being set up with FBI involvement, because I think they try to position the FBI away from these other sources of power, CIA, Department of Defense or the Legacy program, Cabal, as it were, to try and use other agencies to ban the FBI may have been chosen.
Speaker A:Lou Alexander might be involved in that.
Speaker A:And also but I think something seems to be stopping Trump that he's worried about.
Speaker A:Whether it's that, as you were implying, Greg, that the secret's just too big and he's going to look stupid.
Speaker A:Whether they told him something else which might have been, look, the Chinese have got this and we're not stupid.
Speaker A:That'll be bad enough.
Speaker A:Might be something else about the tech, we don't know.
Speaker A:But there's also a bit of a worry crept in.
Speaker A:But he's mates with all these tech bros.
Speaker A:He'd been trying to get their hands on the tech for a long time.
Speaker A:And maybe they're cutting some deals with them as well, because he's also mentioned this year about the brilliant tech they've got and all the rest of it, you know, the big weapons they've got but a secret.
Speaker A:And there's also been talk in some circles about the US having developed some pretty tasty weapons.
Speaker A:You know, I think what they had called.
Speaker A:I forget what the black particle plasma weapons is the name from which his names escape me.
Speaker A:But there's also.
Speaker A:So there may be that element going on as well where the Trump regime is trying to make a book on it.
Speaker A:But so there's a lot of it hasn't happened because suppose the only regime that's not crazy enough to do disclosure is the one that maybe can't handle it, you know, which is that one you know aren't competent to do it or maybe can't do it in an orderly manner.
Speaker A:So this whole Trump regime is the whole nine yards for me because we know.
Speaker A:Well come on to it in a minute.
Speaker A:But, but we know.
Speaker A:We, we, we know that they, they are, they are implicated in it in quite, quite a way and that this prohibiting in speaking in some way.
Speaker A:So it's about how they break through that.
Speaker A:Now that brings me on to what I think in the.
Speaker A:To counterpoint that we've got more open talk of the Legacy program reverse engineering.
Speaker A:People are talking about him, all these whistleblowers and all people as a fact or as something that's going on.
Speaker A: off and that was just in late: Speaker A:We've heard all this testimony coming out before the Age of disclosure and in the congressional thing and in Age of disclosure, which was had a massive impact as well.
Speaker A:There's also been this discussion of page which I think I mentioned last time we're on which is Presidential Emergency Action Directive.
Speaker A:That's the stuff.
Speaker A:The emergency plans for nuclear war and all those sort of things.
Speaker A:They're kept highly secret and it's in the President's authority and that's the way they reckon.
Speaker A:They've kept all this secret for years because they don't have to reveal it that on the Department of Energy now they managed to keep it away from accountability.
Speaker A:The problem with that is how do you get at it really?
Speaker A:And that's where I was.
Speaker A:What I was trying to explain earlier wasn't doing a very good job about it.
Speaker A:But the fact the regime may be under the President's control, but he's maybe out of the loop or only semi.
Speaker A:And how far is he in the loop?
Speaker A:Who's controlling it?
Speaker A:The National Security Council, which is the President's security arm, where he links him with the intelligence ages.
Speaker A:Is that running it?
Speaker A:What's happening?
Speaker A:And it's all a little bit murky as to what's happening.
Speaker A:But the key thing is if it is all control for these presidential emergency action directives, the White House has the power to do something about it.
Speaker A:And so it even more depends on Trump to actually get it out.
Speaker A:The bigger part, though, as I say, is people are talking about this as if it's a reality.
Speaker A:People aren't really doubting there's some sort of reverse legacy program anymore.
Speaker A:You think about three years ago, that was a massively contested issue.
Speaker A:I heard this NASA thing, this NASA Science, the Science foundation podcast with NASA.
Speaker A:People have worked at NASA who weren't the sort of, you know, ones who just life through the team.
Speaker A:We've been working on this stuff.
Speaker A:They were talking about all kinds of tech as if it was a reality to say a big American funding person who.
Speaker A:She directs all the funding she on.
Speaker A:Matt.
Speaker A:Matt can't remember his name.
Speaker A:Matt Jones.
Speaker A:He said, Matt something does the Good Trouble show.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:God, I can.
Speaker A:Matt Ford, she was on his show talking about the investment.
Speaker A:He was on this program.
Speaker A:They had put off a load of people who, you know, talking about it as if it was normal.
Speaker A:You're just trying to figure out what to do with the tech.
Speaker A:So it's really been normalized, as you alluded to.
Speaker A:There's been a lot of Rogan interviews.
Speaker A:So there's been quite a lot of stuff that's coming out.
Speaker A:And that, to me, has been the biggest impact of this whistleblower and Age of Disclosure.
Speaker A:People are normally talking about this stuff.
Speaker A:And the discussions sort of moved on just to finally, because there's a lot there.
Speaker A:I just finished.
Speaker A:I'll round it up with the Age of Disclosure.
Speaker A:There's a couple more things, but just because you've probably got a few things to say now, if we look at the Age of Disclosure, I think it had a massive impact on the mainstream.
Speaker A:You know, there was a lot of American tv, even more than the Grush thing, in some ways, they did programs on it.
Speaker A:It was treated seriously because even the mainstream media in the U.S. couldn't ignore some of the senior people who were on.
Speaker A:On it.
Speaker A:They're all pretty credible, as you were alluding to.
Speaker A:Why would you come out and say it and that.
Speaker A:That for the first time in a proper documentary, laid down the, you know, the structure to cover up who was doing it.
Speaker A:The Air Force, the CIA, Department of energy.
Speaker A:They put that together.
Speaker A:They put the retrievals pink together and how that worked.
Speaker A:All the things we've been hearing, they put it all together and went through it.
Speaker A:Talked about how the propulsion work works, even talks about different types of aliens.
Speaker A:Raised the issue with treaties.
Speaker A:There was loads in that documentary and I think it had a massive impact and I thought that might help get the UAP Disclosure act through this month.
Speaker A:But I don't.
Speaker A:It hasn't.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's not happened unfortunately.
Speaker A:But we've now got follow up.
Speaker A:It set the ground nicely for something we might come on to next year.
Speaker A:The Spielberg movie which is called Disclosure Day.
Speaker A:We've seen the trailers come out for that.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:That implies if you look at it implies us maybe some humans that are hybrid either in contact with nhi.
Speaker A:NHI are pushing the disclosure.
Speaker A:It's trying to be shut down.
Speaker A:There's loads of law in there and a lot of this stuff that we talk about now it seems to be in the film and it seems like the age of disclosures.
Speaker A:So the Spielberg film is going to be a summer blockbuster six months time and that might be really two things together might be very impactful.
Speaker A:So that's where we're going from there.
Speaker A:From the.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker A:The UAP Disclosure act hasn't happened.
Speaker A:The task force has done well.
Speaker A:Trump regime hasn't acted more.
Speaker A:But all throughout that the talk of a legacy program and this reverse and having craft crafts that's become more normalized and we've seen that the age of disclosures sort pushed it over the edge I think.
Speaker A:So that's I think sort of where we've got to with that.
Speaker A:I so I'll.
Speaker A:I'll let you guys get a word in edgeways now because I've gone on a bit.
Speaker A:I do apologize.
Speaker B:Do you want to go first Ash?
Speaker C:So yeah.
Speaker C:So I guess yeah.
Speaker C:I love Dave Sl shows because it makes hard job so much easier to sit back and really does talk its horses.
Speaker C:You do not talk too much, Dave.
Speaker C:It's awesome.
Speaker C:It's really makes it a lot easier and fun for us.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's a couple of things kind of there's quite a lot there that we just went through.
Speaker C:Sort of touched on the Congress bit a little bit.
Speaker C:Like for me I'm just hoping it's just not all just political theater and not going to get more congressional hearings but a few answers which sometimes seems to be the case.
Speaker C:We get more names but still like Mike mentioned earlier, just nothing really concrete coming out.
Speaker C:Trump's stuff Yeah I mean it's.
Speaker C:It's a weird time I think across the whole kind of political spectrum at the minute.
Speaker C:It's just so much going on.
Speaker C:So much is changing.
Speaker C:A lot of division stuff like that which we won't draw on.
Speaker C:But it's quite a difficult one to kind of get behind I think personally and that type of stuff and moving on to age disclosure full disclosure from me I haven't seen it.
Speaker C:I didn't wanna.
Speaker C:It was like 20 quid or something you get a ton of.
Speaker C:It was like it was.
Speaker B:I didn't pay 20 quid for it.
Speaker A:Subscriptions ash and get your bloody get watching it justifiable research the listeners will be happy.
Speaker C:I just thought like.
Speaker C:Like to me because I think being a bit going back to the word of Jaded and the documentaries come out in the past it's just kind of more the same of the same.
Speaker C:A lot of people's claiming stuff and no actual nothing fruitful or evidential that comes across and it's.
Speaker C:I saw obviously a lot of people talking about it.
Speaker C:I also.
Speaker C:A lot of people having not watched it but kind of reading people's reviews of it.
Speaker C:It's kind of what.
Speaker C:What I did more to see if I felt like I wanted to go and watch it and see what's kind of the general gist was.
Speaker C:And there's a lot of people sort of saying good for the common people and for the mainstream stuff like you said a lot of stuff going out in mainstream news and shows and stuff and talk shows which is always going to be a good thing but for people that kind of like us more in it.
Speaker C:There's obviously a couple of new names and stuff in there but still kind of the same or same old and coming through.
Speaker C:So that made me sort of stay on the side not wanting to watch it.
Speaker C:You know I know shots I really really should but maybe a well after Dave's recommendation but it just kind of reading the initial reviews and stuff was kind of felt like I'm not gonna.
Speaker C:It was just gonna be the same same stuff and like the.
Speaker C:Was it.
Speaker C:Was it the program last year?
Speaker A:Yeah just did the end of that.
Speaker C:Yeah quite similar documentary I guess that.
Speaker A:Was rubbish the program compared to this.
Speaker A:Absolutely rubbish compared to this.
Speaker C:Anyway sorry anyhow next one that was kind of it like say I I having watched the program thinking there's a lot of hype for this James Fox and all this thing's going to be mind blowing in it and all this stuff's going to be groundbreaking stuff and it wasn't.
Speaker C:It didn't come in.
Speaker C:And then again, nine months later, this new Disclosure film, it's going to be groundbreaking.
Speaker C:All these people coming out, it's like it's just gonna be the same thing again.
Speaker C:Like it's just people just jumping on the train a little bit, which evidently may not be the case.
Speaker C:I will get around to watching it, but that's the reason why I've not sort of watched it, watched it yet, Greg.
Speaker B:So, yeah, like Dave said, and I alluded to that, it seems that the end of the year, as there's been this ramp up, if you're going to start pushing Disclosure and getting your message across going on Joe Rogan, it's probably the best thing you could do.
Speaker B:He, he's got the largest podcast in the world.
Speaker B:Millions of people listen to the episodes.
Speaker B:That's probably the biggest platform.
Speaker B:These senators and representatives, like Luna, she was on there.
Speaker B:And that was a really good conversation.
Speaker B:He also had Dave Farah, I think that's the surname.
Speaker B:He's the guy who directed Age of Disclosure.
Speaker A:He was on there, I think.
Speaker A:I'm not that I'm a great one for remembering names, so.
Speaker B:But that was a really good conversation.
Speaker B:There seems to have been these high profile conversations publicly about uap that Joe Rogan from a few years ago when he, he said he didn't believe in it all.
Speaker B:And then he's, he's now back into it.
Speaker B:But Age of Disclosure for me, I thought was really good.
Speaker B:It is a good one to watch for the, for the layperson and the general public.
Speaker B:I think it was probably the best thing they could do was watch that and it'll bring you zap right up to speed with sort of essentially where we are.
Speaker B:Didn't massively learn anything new off of it myself, only because I've been keeping my toe in.
Speaker B:You wouldn't learn anything new, Ash for definite.
Speaker B:But I think for the everyday person who's not really into it or is trying to get into it, it was a really good sort of roundup essentially of where you like Hal Put off was in there.
Speaker B:Eric Davis.
Speaker B:So not just these whistleblowers as such, like Hal Put Off.
Speaker B:I listen to loads of his stuff.
Speaker B:And if you, if people see Hal Put off and then they'll go and listen to other stuff that he's done where he talks about remote viewing programs that he was involved in back in the day and his work with Ingo Swann and people, they look back at this and go, oh my God, these guys have Been into this for years and this is what they do.
Speaker B:So that adds that credibility.
Speaker B:And I think people like Hal put off Eric Davis, Jay Stratton, I'd never.
Speaker B:I've heard him on some podcasts but to see him quite prominent in the episode talking about his relationship with Lou and, and why Lou went forward and see Lou Alzondo in that documentary as well speaking quite openly at one point, but basically said that we were warned that we were going to be killed essentially and that their life was on the line.
Speaker B:And for Lou to speak so eloquently because he is very good at public speaking.
Speaker B:I think a lot of like Dave said, a lot of people will.
Speaker B:Will have taken notice of this documentary and whilst it didn't cover everything, I don't think you could.
Speaker B:I think it covered us enough.
Speaker B:Enough for the normal person to understand how serious this situ.
Speaker B:Situation this sort of topic is now and the fact that all of these top people are speaking about it.
Speaker B:So I think it ended and was perfect for the Steven Spielberg film coming out next year.
Speaker B:Essentially almost the same name.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It's a perfect build up and I've already seen online where there was just the.
Speaker B:The screen grab of the.
Speaker B:The poster for the Steven Spielberg film before the trailer even come out and everybody was loads of comments online saying it looks like an alien child or it looks like something upside down.
Speaker B:And so I think we've got an interesting year coming up.
Speaker B:I don't think anything groundbreaking is going to come of it.
Speaker B:I just think it's going to be more of the same look as seemed to have been more of the same.
Speaker B: if, if we were to go back to: Speaker B:We haven't.
Speaker B:But I think we've come a long way since then.
Speaker B:I don't know if you guys feel that and I think this year it's been a build.
Speaker B:It's just been a little stepping stone.
Speaker A:Again for the last thing I was going to say.
Speaker A:I believe it's a couple more things first I think we've got a couple.
Speaker A:But I was going to do the covered idea where we are and it'd be interesting to what you guys think because that I think you're.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:I do get where Ash is coming from and not wanting to watch it all joking aside because we have seen that before.
Speaker A:They promise a lot and it's a load of blurry videos and that Jason Sands was an absolute.
Speaker A:He was just turned out to be.
Speaker A:Not playing with a full deck, in my opinion anyway.
Speaker A:But all sorts of strange.
Speaker A:But this is actually, as it happens, the real deal.
Speaker A:And you know, it's.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:Probably the one time actually for.
Speaker A:I've had enough of this.
Speaker A:There's the one time you probably should have.
Speaker A:Should have watched the bloody thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's typical, isn't it?
Speaker A:You would think, to bear in mind, of courses.
Speaker A:But Trump is in a lot of trouble at the moment politically.
Speaker A:He's nose diving in the polls and that means, importantly, he could lose the midterms, which means he loses House of Congress and that means he can start getting investigated again and he can stop his spending because the only reason he's all powerful at the moment is because all the Republicans are letting him do what he wants.
Speaker A:But Congress has got a lot of power.
Speaker A:So I think if it really gets bad for him, say somewhat worse comes out about this Epstein stuff and all the rest of it, I think he could.
Speaker A:Well, he might think, oh well, I'll just release this because let's face it, if he drops that all his other problems go away, in my view anyway, because it's so massive.
Speaker A:So that could be a factor.
Speaker B:But sorry, just to jump in.
Speaker B:No, no, that there was a news story the other day where this flurry of bets was taking place on some website that went from a 7% chance of Trump releasing documents relating to.
Speaker B:To UAP and coming out with it to something like 90 odd percent.
Speaker B:There's like $6 million worth of bets went onto the.
Speaker B:I can't remember the website but it's seen as like this political thing where people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Put bets on.
Speaker B:So there was this massive swing to say that within days Trump is going to start announcing UAP disclosure, whether or not he does.
Speaker B:But sorry, that was just that political bit.
Speaker A:Just to jump in.
Speaker A:You're right though.
Speaker A:But Don Ju.
Speaker A:I forgot to mention earlier, both JD Vance and Don Jr have been talking about it really in glowing terms.
Speaker A:Now, I don't know whether that B site was sort of flooded by somebody to make it interesting or not.
Speaker A:I don't know how it works, but I forget the name.
Speaker A:It brings a proper bet inside.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:That was seen as quite significant that you don't know that very, very come out.
Speaker A:But anyway, so you're right.
Speaker A:I mean I just think it could happen.
Speaker A:But we just got a bed.
Speaker A:I might know.
Speaker A:I predicted that in a way last year for different reasons, and that it was perfect for him.
Speaker A:Like I was just saying before this year, it might be that it's not that you'd help him, but he might need to do it as a distraction.
Speaker A:So that's just something to bear in mind.
Speaker A:But clearly something's still stopping him.
Speaker A:And whether it's a threat to his life or whether it's such a, you know, he might make him look worse.
Speaker A:But I think if he gets more desperate.
Speaker A:Anyway, what I want to do now is there's a couple of little odds, sort of, you know, odd things to mention.
Speaker A:But before I do, I just want to.
Speaker A:And I think I wrote in my notes here, trouble in paradise.
Speaker A:Well, first, there's been a lot of disinfo, which I've sort of mentioned, and it was mainly Wall Street Journal articles that ex Arrow bloke Tim Phillips coming out.
Speaker A:Sorry, I pressed mute by mistake there.
Speaker A:Maybe that was the.
Speaker A:The urge to send to myself, like Arrow would do that.
Speaker A:Maybe that's what it was.
Speaker A:But anyway.
Speaker A:And that was mainly targeted the.
Speaker A:The uap.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The UAP Disclosure act again.
Speaker A:But there's been quite a lot of that coming out scene.
Speaker A:But more to the point, we've seen quite a lot of internal faction fighting in the UAP movement itself.
Speaker A:Firstly, we've seen the sort of, what have been a pretty consistent leadership of Lou Alexander, Chris Mellon, the people from.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:That sort of disintegrated a little bit.
Speaker A:Not massively, but people applying their own furrow.
Speaker A:Some people are going the congressional route, some people are going from big messes.
Speaker A:People are saying more stuff.
Speaker A:So that's been going on.
Speaker A:It's been obviously a lot of attacking Lou.
Speaker A:I think a lot of that about some people, legitimate, I think about the intelligence community is they're getting with people who they know.
Speaker A:They don't say, oh, we're the intelligence community.
Speaker A:Can you please slide glue off, please?
Speaker A:They say they get an idea of what they like and then they tell them what they know they're going to go off with and they just kick off anyway.
Speaker A:So I think there's a lot of that going on.
Speaker A:You've got some of these other weird characters who seem to have a vendetta against him.
Speaker A:So there's that.
Speaker A:There's that going on.
Speaker A:You've also got the other side of it where you've got the experience aside.
Speaker A:People are saying, why'd you keep suppressing our voice?
Speaker A:And we want to know.
Speaker A:There's a lot more to this when you meet the eye and there's stuff and the issue of abductions isn't being talked about and I think that's more the meaty issue about abduction because I think that's quite, quite significant, that abduction string.
Speaker A:Because I can understand why you won't go into experience and stuff straight away because it'll scare off the general public and you need them to on.
Speaker A:I really do get that.
Speaker A:Even though I do understand my experiences don't like it.
Speaker A:But I also think this abduction thing, they say, yeah, well, you know, 20% of the world's Earth's population is abducted every year and there's nothing we can do about it.
Speaker A:Where'd you go with that?
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Oh, by the way, because we couldn't stop it.
Speaker A:We signed a treaty about it so we could get some tech just to get some out of the deal.
Speaker A:That's not going to go down very well either, is it?
Speaker A:So, so, so, so there is so, so there's that.
Speaker A:So there's the experience of piece which is a bit of a broad.
Speaker A:But there's also then and Tiny Clous who does a pod show.
Speaker A:He's sort of going off the deep end this a bit.
Speaker A:There's a bit about and I think he's got some legitimate peers.
Speaker A:But the tech bros trying to, you know, Enigma Project and all that, trying to get all of the technology for themselves, Trump doing shady deals or all these guys tell them so like Animal Farm, you substitute one set of rulers for another.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like it does at the end of that book.
Speaker A:And that's the worry there.
Speaker A:But the point is it's got a lot more fractured and I think again my personal views, I watched it for years, but the intelligence community's probably got something to do with it.
Speaker A:I get it's normal faction anyway.
Speaker A:People think fallout.
Speaker A:I'm not saying that happens, but I also think it's being prodded and polled as well.
Speaker A:And I think there's a genuine decision.
Speaker A:The question is, where do you want to get off the disclosure bus?
Speaker A:I reckon Lou and Chris Mellor want to get off at a certain stop, which is about release a little bit, so all the scientists can work on it together.
Speaker A:But let's not talk about the contact and the treaty.
Speaker A:Some other people want to go further and a lot of us want to go a lot further.
Speaker A:And so while we're all ride the same bus together to a certain extent, we'll all probably want to go off at different stops.
Speaker A:And I think part of that is behind some of this Disagreement and other bits are just attacking.
Speaker A:You know like Stephen Gray just wants to make his own money and say it's all love and light.
Speaker A:Some other people are making money off the pods attacking everybody.
Speaker A:There's a lot of stuff going on but there was that.
Speaker A:That sort of trouble in paradise.
Speaker A:So I think we need to think about that now.
Speaker A:Unless you want to come in there.
Speaker A:I've just got three.
Speaker A:Couple of other factors just to mention briefly.
Speaker A:Yeah the first one is that there's been a lot of stuff about USOs which is undersea submers, objects, whatever.
Speaker A:They're like UAPs on under water basically.
Speaker A:Richard Dolan released a big book on that.
Speaker A:Lots of evidence and maybe a basis on the to see particular hot spots.
Speaker A:Lots of sightings.
Speaker A:So that's become more prominent this year and seen as a thing it's been going on for ages.
Speaker A:Navy have had a lot of contacts, submarines had a lot of contacts.
Speaker A:So I was mentioned but that's come more before and the importance of that is the implication is that there's some sort of hidden infrastructure below the waters but whoever the with an NHA presence on the earth.
Speaker A:So that's quite an important thing just to bear.
Speaker A:So there's been a lot of talk about that.
Speaker A:The other thing that's quite interesting is there's been a rise.
Speaker A:There's been a rise in the talk of AI and linking it to want to talk about consciousness.
Speaker A:Now the AI is seen as maybe a tool for which we can communicate with nhi but it's also been viewed as a bit of an NHI itself in terms of our relationship with it.
Speaker A:So as well as a tool for discovery.
Speaker A:So there's that whole AI thing is coming in and I suspect in some of the other things you've been doing guys in the paranormal side of it there's also stuff around out there and is it.
Speaker A:You know, has it got a soul and how can it interact with different entities and maybe it can do things we can't.
Speaker A:There's all.
Speaker A:So that's come into the mix and the consciousness thing has come into the mix.
Speaker A:We've.
Speaker A:You've got this program the right the telepathy tapes where you've got a lot of autistic kids who can't speak or you know, really communicate but they.
Speaker A:There's evidence they've got this whole telepathic relationship and the only implication of that is that our consciousness isn't just sits inside ourselves and is a product of chemical processes just of us.
Speaker A:It actually exists outside of ourselves and Some communality to it.
Speaker A:And that we think is what the NHI tap into to make us see stuff.
Speaker A:And there's all that fingers come on.
Speaker A:And it also opens the door to a of lot a lot more religious or spiritual people coming into the movement and talking about.
Speaker A:There's been a lot more of that talk steadily going up.
Speaker A:And again there's a link to the paranormal there which you guys will have picked up on again.
Speaker A:So there's that.
Speaker A:And Joe Rogan referred to NHI as the God we have created.
Speaker A:And I thought, oh, he's not.
Speaker A:That's not a bad little image.
Speaker A:Not really in a way because in some ways it's more superior to us in terms of its ability to process a lot of information.
Speaker A:I'm not saying it is, but it's like we've created our own little personal God.
Speaker A:And that's an interesting concept.
Speaker A:And you could also see and there's been a lot of sci fi novels like this where the AI talks to the aliens, they become our interface and it's just whole fascinating area.
Speaker A:And finally the one just to.
Speaker A:I'm sure this really cheered you up past this one, which was.
Speaker A:Well, there's been a lot of talk about this.
Speaker A:I'm not to doubt this people.
Speaker A: een a lot of talk again about: Speaker A:Something's coming.
Speaker A:What's going to happen?
Speaker A:Is it going to be some cataclysm?
Speaker A: that was going on throughout: Speaker A:And that seems to be.
Speaker A:There's a lot of talk about that now.
Speaker A:We've heard it for years and I tend to dismiss it, but it has persisted.
Speaker A:And so what we don't know is if there's even something on the way on some event or some cataclysm that seems to be rumbling along with more people talking about that.
Speaker A:And famously Lou, are we.
Speaker A:Matt Ford and I think we talked about this last year, sort of a little said I know about that, but I can't talk about it.
Speaker A:So there may be something to it, but not maybe in the way we know now given that was going on.
Speaker A:We had Three Eye Atlas and so everybody thought all right, something is coming and maybe that's it.
Speaker A:And I do think it's very anomalous.
Speaker A:Don't get me wrong.
Speaker A:I think it's anonymous anomalous.
Speaker A:I think there's a few weird things about it and I think NASA's not been forthcoming, but it seems more likely now it's a comment but.
Speaker A:And I know Ivy Lobe because he likes to get a good bit of funding in and he also.
Speaker A:So he was doing it for that reason.
Speaker A:He was also a bit of a teachable moment in but he was more or less saying look if this was something weird what how could we deal with it?
Speaker A:So I thought that was a legitimate point.
Speaker A:But he didn't really do enough in my opinion to stop the oh I think it's an alien fleet coming to kill us, you know and that give us a bit of a negative sort of publicity and I thought was a bit of a deflection in some ways some of the things going on.
Speaker A:So AI AI Atlas Free I Atlas.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Freudian slip 3 Eye Atlas was something that again was a big thing in this year and proved to be I'd say more of a distraction than a benefit really.
Speaker A:So they're the sort of other.
Speaker A:So I'll stop going on now but I want to talk about just in the last bit I suppose but where I think we are but I just wonder what you thought about all that and what you your impressions were.
Speaker C:So yeah, so I think you mentioned there about I mean I suppose like I sort of got backwards a little bit like sort of reverse order.
Speaker C:So Free Free AI Atlas I think it's just past its closest pastor Earth I believe in the past couple days or last week maybe.
Speaker C:So he's sort of moving away from Earth now.
Speaker C:Obviously everybody was talking about this is the time it's going to happen.
Speaker C:We're going to see what it is.
Speaker C:They're coming to Earth.
Speaker C:And I think just because there's just so much for all around was just kind of got a bit of a joke thing.
Speaker C:It's like guys, come on.
Speaker C:Like it's just.
Speaker C:It was everywhere.
Speaker C:It was like it's just again went up everywhere.
Speaker C:And then you see people like some of the people that get involved with saying that it's something beyond being a comet and it's kind of tickle faces that you expect to be saying that about it.
Speaker C:It's kind of makes you start be more even more kind of like come on, let's just.
Speaker C:It's a comet type thing which I wish it is something more.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:It's a bit bit mad.
Speaker C: I was going to ask about: Speaker C: k year closer to it almost in: Speaker C:And so I mentioned the spirituality consciousness which just seems to be a lot More you are right about people connecting all the consciousness sort of C5 heist kind of so people connecting with each other in that way and sort of outwards with a more spiritual conscious base rather than the nuts and bolts craft retrieval type stuff.
Speaker C:There's just seems to be a lot more people open to kind of opening themselves to the sort of meditation side of things and being at one and the energy light love type of stuff around it which, which is good.
Speaker C:So it's good.
Speaker C:It's also two.
Speaker C:It's like two completely different sides of things we're talking about like the congress and facts and evidence and be able to prove these claims and bodies and retrievals and all this stuff.
Speaker C:And then on the other side we've got.
Speaker C:It's like the telepathy.
Speaker C:It's the communicating with energy and sort of all sharing.
Speaker C:We all come from the same sort of energy, the same star dust.
Speaker C:We all come back to it go to where we came from.
Speaker C:We all.
Speaker C:We all built from the same like point in history at the big bang.
Speaker C:We all come from the same sort of initial burst of any.
Speaker C:That we all share.
Speaker C:And it's just so mad that even myself opened up a lot more to that side of things.
Speaker C:I've done C5 myself for the first time this.
Speaker C:This well last year and this year as well.
Speaker C:I never thought I was kind of into that sort that side of things.
Speaker C:I always thought now you can't ask get meditate and ask aliens to come and show themselves.
Speaker C:There's no way.
Speaker C:But I'm open to that.
Speaker C:Well, sorry.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:I think a lot of people are now and I think looking obviously we're going to talk about sort of what.
Speaker C:Where we are now and what's coming next.
Speaker C:But I think particularly with this train turn 7 thing again initially I was like this is just the same people again.
Speaker C:It's the same sort of face.
Speaker C:To say something's coming is always something coming around the corner.
Speaker C: If it gets: Speaker C: It'll be always: Speaker C:We obviously there's always the past few years.
Speaker C:There's always been this pattern of the next big thing is coming.
Speaker C:The next big thing is coming.
Speaker C:It never comes.
Speaker C:But like you say Dave, it's still persistent.
Speaker C:People are still talking about it and with it getting closer they're still doubling down on it rather than because getting close nothing's happened yet.
Speaker C:Let's kind of start looking for avoidance work away around it.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The more still doubling down.
Speaker C:So which if nothing does Happen going to kind of make them look a bit more like stupid, I guess because they're going so hard in on it, not really giving themselves that out with it the way they're going down with a lot of these people.
Speaker C:So it kind of makes you think is, is this legit?
Speaker C:Is like the sources are correct, that something is coming.
Speaker C:So that's kind of where I'm at, being open minded about it.
Speaker C: ike calling it all this, this: Speaker C:I think it was actually trying to think back.
Speaker C:Whereas.
Speaker C:Whereas now I'm actually thinking actually there could be something to it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I agree.
Speaker B: The: Speaker B:And then we've had all of these dates all the time.
Speaker B:But I don't know.
Speaker B:It's difficult to ignore when lots of people have the same conversation.
Speaker B:Regardless of whether you think it's just another date that will come and pass like you just mentioned or that there's something in it.
Speaker B:Maybe that's humanity wanting something and we want something to happen to change the course of where we're going.
Speaker C:Because that's a great point actually.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's a lot of bad at the minute and I think maybe just that bit of hope that there's something good or bad just to change.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's happening right now, you think?
Speaker B:And Dave mentioned it like the whole Trump thing.
Speaker B:He has come out today.
Speaker B:I think that Epstein mentioned Trump in his suicide note and that Trump was after attractive nubile women or people.
Speaker B:So it's kind of shit that he just doesn't need right now.
Speaker B:He's attacking boats in Venezuela at the moment and bomb doing bombing raids and attacking Venezuela, which is completely not in a lot of the mainstream press in the UK because the whole Epstein thing.
Speaker B:So it's perfect cover for this kind of stuff.
Speaker B:So if you were to drop some kind of UAP disclosure, you have to look why they're dropping it now.
Speaker B:Is it because they're trying to cover it up?
Speaker B:Something else that that's potentially happening they don't want you to see.
Speaker B:So we're at a very strange time in propaganda information disinformation.
Speaker B:Who do you believe?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:You think it's the main players.
Speaker B:And then you, Lou brings up that picture that he hasn't properly investigated and as you guys mentioned.
Speaker B:Why would you do that?
Speaker B:It just seems a bit of a weird a Weird thing considering how structured his public appearances must have been.
Speaker B:Him with Jay Stratton and whoever's pulling the strings there.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:I think we're in a very, very odd time.
Speaker B:There's so much correct information out there that we're probably not seeing because we're being blindsided by a lot of that's being put out and tell it as truth which is perfect because that's, that's what the governments or whoever is controlling the information wants you to believe that this is happening, this isn't happening.
Speaker B:And if we can muddy the waters enough that we can put out fact and you'll think it's anyway and that's just classic disinformation and misinformation I think that has shrouded disclosure of all information for a very long time.
Speaker B:So we live in very strange times at the moment.
Speaker B:I don't think that the, the timing at the moment we're in a wild time because it feels like everybody's coming forward, Everybody's open to UFOs, UAP, USOs, people happy to discuss the fact that they've seen and witnessed all these things.
Speaker B:Things but like you mentioned both you abduction and experiences as a whole another kettle of fish.
Speaker B:And it's one thing to say that we see objects in the sky or underwater to saying that they're taking people for whatever reason.
Speaker B:So my, in my view I think we're just in this just weird, weird time for the last five years or so it's just been weird.
Speaker B:I don't think when we.
Speaker B:If we review next year, this time next year I don't think we're going to be that much far forward but I think there'll be a lot more information out there but I don't think it will be from an official capacity like a president.
Speaker A:The last bit really I think.
Speaker A:Well that's usually you want to say anything else Greg?
Speaker A:Sorry I jumped a little bit.
Speaker A:I do think it's quite funny.
Speaker A:I bet they themselves when you were on the, the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:What's it?
Speaker A:The expert.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:The C5 stuff is here.
Speaker A:Right lads?
Speaker A:Yeah, she's there.
Speaker A:But they all run off the fear of being questioned too vigorously about the aircraft.
Speaker A:More seriously.
Speaker A:I think that's good that and, and I, I see the problem with this just depends on his consciousness though.
Speaker A:It is a bit of a bullshitters paradise really in some ways and that's what makes us all so leery of it and particularly given the other areas that you look into and I'm interested in as well we know that there's a massive commercialized new age industry that sits aborts the UAP thing which is much bigger and there's low and I've seen a few people coming from that area say consciousness and I think we're barely conscious.
Speaker A:That's probably their only relationship the consciousness out of it and they just say all these wonderful words and it's just rubbish.
Speaker A:Seeing a lot of the channel is now I quite like channeling.
Speaker A:I think there's something to it but there's all these channels on YouTube it's just cobblers.
Speaker A:I mean this was.
Speaker A:This alien was talking with the same grammatic flaws that this woman from North London had.
Speaker A:I thought oh there's that what an alien that is.
Speaker A:You know I mean it was the.
Speaker A:The point is it does make you live but I do think there's something to it and so.
Speaker A:So it's a bit of a thing but to come back to the point we're at a bit of a weird spot I think and.
Speaker A:And it's not it and it.
Speaker A: the progress we've made since: Speaker A:It's not going to be as long as it sounds and where.
Speaker A:Where I think it's changed and that'll maybe get us to where it might go next because a lot it really ties in to what you guys about saying so I'll just.
Speaker A:I'll do this pretty quickly.
Speaker A: So pre: Speaker A:So it was very much ignored apart from.
Speaker A: people pretty rush we had the: Speaker A:It sort of there was unexplainable things in the car sky the characteristics you can't explain.
Speaker A:We're not sure.
Speaker A:The government were baffled and looking into it.
Speaker A:We had Tom Tom whatever is DeLong and TSS TS TSS AA I can't remember it now CTSA that's thanks for that.
Speaker A:That day come out they was pushing it.
Speaker A:We learn all that.
Speaker A: We had this: Speaker A:In my view there was a big step change that was essentially this in my view intelligently controlled craft NHI craft with capabilities that we can't explain all match are operating in large numbers in our aerospace I'm not saying this is bad to say this is where I thought we got to have recovered some of these craft and bodies NHI to have the USS US adversaries There's a secret reverse engineering program named at US developing the tech with a power source all these were made Russia sort of brought that out is more credible adversaries are doing the same in terms of reverse engineering there's been a decades long cover up and they're keeping it from the public and mainstream institutions and politicians we might emphasis on might have treaties and alliances of NHI and we saw senior politicians the accumulation that was producing this legislation.
Speaker A:So where do I think we are now given all the whistleblowers where is the solver Overton window the commonly accepted view or the more commonly accepted view now so all of the above I've just said but I think where we are now is we may well have working craft that uses this tech in the US inventory that is that we built as humans in some way and access to an exotic power source.
Speaker A:So that's one thing so might our adversaries which links back to the Chinese stuff we talked about earlier.
Speaker A:It's much more likely that we do have agreements with NHI just because of the way people have been talking about that this is all program to be done on that I suppose it may be that large numbers of people are being abducted Our agreements cover this and in any case we can't stop it.
Speaker A:That may be another thing that seems to be talked about not more I'm not saying that's definitely believe everybody it's certainly in the mix and people are talking about it quite openly.
Speaker A:Another interesting one there are different groups of NHI involves not just one that has come out as a A lot of people have said that now who seems to be credible all as different groups and that's come out again as a has been on the fringe to be quite a thing that people accept or accept more in any way.
Speaker A:Another interesting one NHIB Reach convert over and the cause for concern that's another big thing that seems to come up clear this year but more and more why they're being so secretive.
Speaker A:What are the plans Is this.
Speaker A:Is there any good way to explain this behavior?
Speaker A:You know so there's that another one linked to the Matthew Brown stuff is core intelligence military and government bureaucrats they control both the secret what's going on the developed program, but crucially have some exotically secret and exotic military capabilities are operating outside of the normal political control and oversight.
Speaker A:Now, a lot of people have called this the breakaway civ.
Speaker A:And the idea there is that there's a group of people got all this tech and they're virtually so far out of sight of us that they're living a different life with all this tech.
Speaker A:I don't particularly think that's happened.
Speaker A:What I think is some of the intelligence, based on Matthew Brown seeing all this tech, some of the intelligence people have actually got this operating below the government level.
Speaker A:They've got access to military resources and whatever.
Speaker A:And I think if there are these secret forces or whatever, they'll operate through the nation states, but through the secret parts of that nation states.
Speaker A:And they built up these, you know, these sort of forces.
Speaker A:So they might have triangles, they might have this, they might have that.
Speaker A:And what we might be seeing is the Chinese element of that, which was that thing seen by the US sub in the sea.
Speaker A:And you've got the American side of it as well, or whatever the NATO bit, it's all kept secret.
Speaker A:So I think it's not a breakaway Civics, just a secret thing not known about B tied to that.
Speaker A:So there's that.
Speaker A:That hasn't come out before.
Speaker A:And the real possibility we've got these alien reproduction vehicles.
Speaker A:So that's another thing that's on the table now.
Speaker A:I think there's an increasingly desperate attempt to spare whistleblowers, do disinfo, whatever, which might work, but I don't think it is working.
Speaker A:But it might well work.
Speaker A:It's really.
Speaker A:You can see it ramping up again now.
Speaker A:There's talk, but they're going to do another big hit piece, Wall Street Journal shortly.
Speaker A:But that's a bit of a distraction.
Speaker A:As I say, a large number of the highly credible military intelligence community, government and to some extent scientists have come out and said these sort of things in public to a greater or lesser degree, which is really interesting.
Speaker A:And the present administration may be looking at this more seriously and more whistleblowers may be coming forward.
Speaker A:Now, I will get into all this in a minute, but there a couple of questions I think flow from it.
Speaker A:The first one is what amount of truth or disclosure coming out now will stop, will be enough to prevent a catastrophic disclosure if it comes.
Speaker A:Are they all coming out on us, all having a lot of shock and nobody knowing what to do?
Speaker A:Is there an exp.
Speaker A:Just come out anyway?
Speaker A:Will it.
Speaker A:Will some sort of information really say if the president stands up, says a few things, will it sort of calm things down a bit?
Speaker A:What will that mean?
Speaker A:Or is it just going to be a runaway train the minute they say because you just can't stop the ball rolling.
Speaker A:Another interesting one is the Democrats could if they win the midterms, could this kill any disclosure moves in his past?
Speaker A:Because they might see it as more Trump fantasy, lunacy, distraction, not I'm incredible, they might shut it down for that basis.
Speaker A: dterms, which are in November: Speaker A:That might be just something to think about as well.
Speaker A:Interestingly, if they are looking at any kind of disclosure, has any planning been done to stabilize the economy and what's going to happen?
Speaker A:Because it could have a massive effect on the economy, on how we work, how we trade, the stock market, are they doing any work on that?
Speaker A:I don't think they are, to be honest with you.
Speaker A:But who knows?
Speaker A:I'm not, I'm not privy to that other interesting thing.
Speaker A:If the president or an official says yeah, they're here and they're all got bases all or whatever they say, will that prompt a reaction from the nhis?
Speaker A:Because the main reason they might have been being quite expensive, covertness and secret and operate maybe there's no advantage to them then that's another thing to think about.
Speaker A:What I'm really getting at here is I think things are accelerating from 24 to 25.
Speaker A:The whole thing of what the whistleblowers are saying, it seems to me to be accelerating a little bit in terms of the amount of specificity that's coming out, you know, in terms of what's going on and just to finish.
Speaker A:So you guys can have a bit of a go there because I just want to finish on the last things next year.
Speaker A:We might see more whistleblowers, we might see more hearings, we might not.
Speaker A:We've got Jay Stratton's book coming out which may be pretty a lot more information.
Speaker A:We may see the Trump regime app we've talked or we might see the momentum sort of fade away as things don't happen.
Speaker A:But we have got the Spielberg film coming up and that might really kick it off.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So what I was trying to illustrate there was how far we've come and I think there's a sense of acceleration and specificity and as I say, the window we're discussing has moved from is there anything to it?
Speaker A:So what are these very particular things true and so that's where I sort of think we are.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker C:And I think I say stuff ramping up like Greg was saying as well.
Speaker C: And I think: Speaker C:Can't wait for that.
Speaker C:I mean the hype and the trailers already and stuff like that and the way the posters are and stuff like that as well looks so interesting.
Speaker C:I think as Spielberg obviously historically has had a lot of.
Speaker C:Obviously his past kind of Alien films, ET and closing accounts and stuff had a lot of stuff in there which is based on fact, which we're obviously going to be expecting the same again with this one in June or July.
Speaker C: it's coming out, But I think: Speaker C:And I think a lot of people are going to be.
Speaker C:If you have 12 months where in 12 months we're at the same kind of point, I think a lot of people are going to be kind of fed too fed up with it at that point.
Speaker C:So I think this year ahead has to be, I think much more of a pivotal thing where we actually get real things happening just to D. I.
Speaker A:Think that's a really shrewd point because I think that's one of a lot of fragmentation in the community.
Speaker A:I think that's part.
Speaker A:That's one reason I didn't mention.
Speaker A:I think there's that and I think you're right, we will get fatigue after a while.
Speaker A:So that I said I am part.
Speaker A:That's a really good point.
Speaker A:Anyway, sorry, you carry on.
Speaker C:I mean, yeah, I mean that.
Speaker C:That's kind of the main point is I think we need to see something or it's just going to be going on roundabouts with more congressional hearings, more people, which is always exciting.
Speaker C:But unless we see something a bit more different over the next 12 months, like I say it's going to be.
Speaker C:Everyone's going be to be too jaded, too burnt out and just.
Speaker C:Yeah, we're training, training seven coming this big, this big event, this big contact event, whatever.
Speaker C:It's going to be I think obviously year where we get prepared for it, where they do give us something like we can.
Speaker C: on for something happening in: Speaker C:So it's not going to be too much of a big shock when it happens.
Speaker C:Maybe something like that will happen.
Speaker C:But yeah, I think we need to answer.
Speaker C:And from the podcast side of you, we're going to be doing a lot more ufo, UAP stuff, a lot more reactive stuff to what's going on.
Speaker C:Kind of keep, more, keep trying to keep people as, as kind of up to date and involved as possible.
Speaker C:So that's going to be.
Speaker C:So we're going to be doing so and if we get burned out from doing it, I hope we don't.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I just, I just reiterate what you guys have said.
Speaker B:I think without, I think as ramped up this year, I think next year is going to be pretty wild.
Speaker B:Probably more of the same.
Speaker B:Not entirely convinced that we'll have a massive amount of congressional hearings because if nothing's really happening what's the point of those hearings?
Speaker B:And that's I think where we'll get to potentially by the end of the, the year it becomes funding.
Speaker B:It's almost like a funding stream of meetings.
Speaker B:We need the money to find out what's going on.
Speaker B:Arrow said there's nothing going on.
Speaker B:So do we bin Arrow, do we, do we fund more space special access programs but more public viewed ones?
Speaker B:Do we pump more money into NASA?
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:I think as we go through the year I think we'll find we'll get a better picture of exactly the way this whole thing's going.
Speaker B:And it's either gonna go one way where we're gonna get more information or like you said Ash, I think we, everybody's just gonna start giving up because nothing's happening.
Speaker B:Maybe that's what they want.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:That's me.
Speaker A:We sort of get again, we've got another year.
Speaker A:There's a lot of promise but there's also, we're not quite sure from experience where it's going to go and like as you guys have said, that's a really good point.
Speaker A:How long is the fuse before it goes out and nothing happens?
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:As it were, you know how long and yeah, very interesting.
Speaker A: ight be a massive build up to: Speaker A:So hopefully that's a bit miserable Notes.
Speaker A:I don't think that's going to happen but I certainly think.
Speaker A:Well all those things I mentioned, fact that they're being seen as being discussed in more of a mainstream I. E. Mainstream in UFO community context is very significant.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think that's about the size of it really gentlemen, I think for tonight but I don't Know what you.
Speaker A:If you get anything else, that's for me, me.
Speaker A:I think we've got to a really good spot there.
Speaker C:I think there's a lot, we recovered a lot.
Speaker C:There's a lot to unpack.
Speaker C:My hair's going to be going through all of this while I'm laying bed ready for Christmas morning, waiting for S, listening for Sant coming down the chimney.
Speaker C:But yeah, no, Dave, it's been amazing as always.
Speaker C:Your, your.
Speaker C:Your wealth of knowledge is always amazing.
Speaker C:That inspires me as well to keep more up to speed everything that's.
Speaker C:That's going on because it is fascinating.
Speaker C:It's really interesting stuff and I think it's really important as well.
Speaker C:So I think it's good.
Speaker C:It's been a good episode to get everyone kind of.
Speaker A:Like I say, you're doing yourself a disservice there, Ash.
Speaker A:You're normally pretty well informed from where I sit as well, you know, so it's just interesting.
Speaker A:Once you pull the string, as it were, the sort of data falls out and you're the same.
Speaker A:Greg, you follow me a lot.
Speaker A:A lot as well.
Speaker A:Even though you say you sit on the sidelines, I think you, you follow it a lot more.
Speaker A:Not what you say, but you just take it in because once you're into it, you have to sort of.
Speaker A:Yeah, just the detail presents itself, I think so I think we're, we're not doing bad between us.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker C:Definitely.
Speaker B:Well, thank you very much, Dave.
Speaker B:I really do appreciate it and it's been too long.
Speaker B:It's been too long.
Speaker A:So maybe we'll see more of each other next year.
Speaker A:I would have focus and also I do like the other side of things.
Speaker A:You know, I really like some of the paranormal stuff and all the rest of it because I think as we've said many times, it's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of linkages and I think that telepathy types is also very interesting.
Speaker A:So hopefully we'll see a bit more of each other next year.
Speaker A:I'm hopefully won't be quite as busy at work as well, so I can.
Speaker A:Maybe more time.
Speaker A:But yeah, I've really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:Thanks for having us on, guys.
Speaker A:Anyway, I really appreciate it.
Speaker C:Anytime, anytime.
Speaker C:And Merry Christmas to you and your family, Dave, and to Greg and to.
Speaker C:To everyone and to all our listeners.
Speaker C:Hope you have a amazing Christmas and new year and for everyone out there.
Speaker A:Everyone.
Speaker C:Everyone out there who may be struggling or is only.
Speaker C:Our inbox is always open to anybody listening.
Speaker C:You don't have to be alone and there is people out there to talk to.
Speaker C:You need it.
Speaker C:But yeah.
Speaker C:Thanks again, Dave.
Speaker C:And we will see you in the new year at some point.
Speaker C:Point.
Speaker A:Cheers, guys.
Speaker A:Merry Christmas.
Speaker B:Merry Christmas, everyone.
Speaker A:You're listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast with your hosts, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson.
